Outdial_new.xml Escalation Not Working, Why?

[Guest newpop1]

Hello, I upgraded to latest 6.3317 version over the weekend and the escalation is not working, where is my mistake? It is supposed to dial 15551122601, if it does not answer or voicemail then call 15552129776. If that does not answer or VM, wait 1 minute and try again 1st number, if it does not answer or VM then try the 2nd number and if answered by person or VM leave message.

 

However, it is dialing the first number, waits 60 seconds for an answer and if no one answers then it just runs the script!!! It does not escalate to the next number, what am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks

 

<OutDialEntry>

<PhoneNumber>15551122601</PhoneNumber>

<OnAnswer>g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\CallReminderHuman.vgs</OnAnswer>

<OnAnswerMachine>retry</OnAnswerMachine>

<CallRetries>0</CallRetries>

<RV>[PhoneNumber]{5551122601}[cId]{3}[LoginName]{USERNAME}[CallTime]{0417}[sentTi

e]{1447}[ConfirmNumber]{3}[speakText]{This is you wake up call}</RV>

<Escalation>

<OutDialEntry>

<PhoneNumber>15552129776</PhoneNumber>

<OnAnswer>g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\CallReminderHuman.vgs</OnAnswer>

<OnAnswerMachine>retry</OnAnswerMachine>

<CallRetries>0</CallRetries>

<RV>[PhoneNumber]{5552129776}[cId]{3}[LoginName]{USERNAME}[CallTime]{0417}[sentTi

e]{1447}[ConfirmNumber]{3}[speakText]{This is you wake up call}</RV>

<Escalation>

<OutDialEntry>

<PhoneNumber>15551122601</PhoneNumber>

<CallTime>Now+1</CallTime>

<OnAnswer>g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\CallReminderHuman.vgs</OnAnswer>

<OnAnswerMachine>retry</OnAnswerMachine>

<CallRetries>0</CallRetries>

<RV>[PhoneNumber]{5551122601}[cId]{3}[LoginName]{USERNAME}[CallTime]{0417}[sentTi

e]{1447}[ConfirmNumber]{3}[speakText]{This is you wake up call}</RV>

<Escalation>

<OutDialEntry>

<PhoneNumber>15552129776</PhoneNumber>

<OnAnswer>g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\CallReminderHuman.vgs</OnAnswer>

<AnswerTimeout>120</AnswerTimeout>

<CallRetries>1</CallRetries>

<RV>[PhoneNumber]{5552129776}[cId]{3}[LoginName]{USERNAME}[CallTime]{0417}[sentTi

e]{1447}[ConfirmNumber]{3}[speakText]{This is you wake up call}</RV>

</OutDialEntry>

</Escalation>

</OutDialEntry>

</Escalation>

</OutDialEntry>

</Escalation>

</OutDialEntry>

log.zip

[Guest newpop1]

I have also noticed that before using version 5 TAPI it used to recognize humans from voicemail. Now it does not even say that. We do have dialogic boards D4PCIU's and was working before.

 

Thanks

[SupportTeam]

Trace shows that the Dialogic card reported to the software that it regards the outgoing call as answered as it did not hear any ringback or busy/disconnect tones.

 

You will need to set the Dialogic card's Ringback tones to match what is played as Ringback when these outgoing calls are placed.

 

The default tone definitions which ship with 'VG for Dialogic' are similar to that used by the Dialogic's TAPI drivers, so if the TAPI version was working fine then the Dialogic version should work as well. Were the TAPI driver's tone detection parameters modified in any way?

 

For information on how to set tone definitions please see here: http://www.voiceguide.com/vghelp/html/Disc...ctionDetect.htm

 

 

171621.00 1 state Dialing 12104812601

171621.02 1 lineMakeCall=>[]

171621.02 1 timer set 60 EV_TIMEOUT_MAKECALL_NORESPONSE

171621.55 1 tw DialogicEvent 135,TDX_SETHOOK,0,0,0,DX_OFFHOOK,CALL_OUTBOUND,

171621.56 1 event TDX_SETHOOK, iCode=135 state=5200

171621.56 1 LsWaitAfterDialingOut : 135,TDX_SETHOOK,0,0,0,DX_OFFHOOK,CALL_OUTBOUND,

171649.58 1 tw DialogicEvent 133,TDX_CALLP,10,1,0,TDX_CALLP,CR_CNCT,CON_CAD

171649.59 1 event CADENCE, iCode=133 state=5200

171649.59 1 LsWaitAfterDialingOut : 133,CADENCE,10,1,0,CR_CNCT,CON_CAD,

171649.59 1 event CONNECT, iCode=133 state=5200

...

171649.61 1 LineEvCallState_OutgoingCallWasAnswered 10,1,0

171649.61 1 init OnCallAnswered_StartScript start

[Guest newpop1]

Hello, I am sorry but I am a bit confused. Here is what we did, downloaded new 6 version, ran EXE and installed it. The only change we did is to the config.xml in the PC where it has 8 lines in order to add the extra 4 lines and what you mentioned to RingsbeforeAnswer to 2. Nothing else. Immediately, VG won't detect human, vg or anything, it does not even show it like it used to in the VB window when it dials out. The config.XML does not have many other options. I have attempted to follow the instructions and add the settings below copying what the dialogic values are for DISC1. However, isn't this for disconnect? VG hangs up just fine. Please advise on what I need to do next, the instructions does not show inside which TAG the <TONE> tag should be in the XML. Thanks

 

<Tone Name="Call Progress Tone TID_DISCONNECT">

<Notes>Our Disconnect Tone</Notes>

<ID>TID_DISCONNECT</ID>

<Freq1>620</Freq1>

<Freq1Dev>200</Freq1Dev>

<Freq2>480</Freq2>

<Freq2Dev>200</Freq2Dev>

<On>30</On>

<OnDev>10</OnDev>

<Off>20</Off>

<OffDev>10</OffDev>

<Count>3</Count>

</Tone>

[SupportTeam]

VoiceGuide's trace shows that the Dialogic card reported to the software that it regards the outgoing call as answered as it did not hear any ringback or busy/disconnect tones.

 

The Dialogic card needs to be told what tones it should be listening for.

 

These definitions are specified in the ConfigLine.xml file.

 

There are tone sections in ConfigLine.xml file for Ringback, Busy, Disconnect etc.

 

The approach to determining what those tones are and how to set the ConfigLine.xml entries is documented in Help file section: http://www.voiceguide.com/vghelp/html/Disc...ctionDetect.htm

[Guest newpop1]

I spent a long time going through the forums, and I found a sample config.xml that shows the following. Do you mean that I need to create and entry for each ID in the XML? This is not listed in your help file nor the links you gave me. The link only lists how to do the TID_DISCONNECT. I can find the FAX1,DISCONECT in the TAPI drivers TAB that I can match with 2 of the list below. I can't find anywhere the equivalent of each of these IDs in the TAPI driver window, where do I get all these values?? This is very very confusing, help file nor forums list how to do this when going from TAPI to 6.0 for Dialogic. Since it says that omitting any definition renders these useless, how do I get the values for each from the TAPI driver. In TAPI driver I have: Board Parameters, Call Params, Disc Tone1, DIsc Tone2, Fax Tone 1, Beep Tone, PBX Settings. Thanks

 

 

The following tone IDs should be defined:

 

TID_DIAL_LCL

TID_DIAL_INTL

TID_DIAL_XTRA

TID_BUSY1

TID_RNGBK1

TID_BUSY2

TID_RNGBK2

TID_DISCONNECT

TID_FAX1

TID_FAX2

 

Omitting any defintions results in the Dialogic card using

the default settings during outgoing call preogress and also the tones will

not be detected during the course of the call.

[Guest newpop1]

Hello, been trying several things but no luck, I am attaching a config.xml, I am not sure if I am putting the TONES in teh right place or not, some tones I can't configure since I do not know where to get the values from. How come the 5.x TAPI worked just fine and if it supposed to be using the defaults, where do I get the values for the ring back , etc?

 

And the best question, how do I even know that the values I am putting in the XML are actually being loaded by VG and it is not using the defaults? I really have to get this working, we have been down 3 days now, we can't make calls. Why can't we go back to TAPI or is there a way to get this working?

 

Thanks

confiftest.xml

[SupportTeam]

The tone definitions go in file ConfigLine.xml, not in Config.xml

 

In TAPI driver I have: Board Parameters, Call Params, Disc Tone1, DIsc Tone2, Fax Tone 1, Beep Tone, PBX Settings.

Can you post screenshots of these please.

 

Did you make a recording of your ringback tone? Did you analyze that recording as described in the Help file?

[Guest newpop1]

I guess I am not doing something right. I read the help file but it does not show you how to create this wav file you need, it just says to do this with the record module, but it does not show you exactly how to do it. How do you do it? I tried creating a script to do a dial out and run a script that has a record module and a hang up after a time out of 5 secs. This created a wav file that does not look anything like the one in the example. I am attaching it. What am I doing wrong, according to this file, the On peak is peak is: 233, something is not right. How do I exactly create this wav file now?

 

Thanks

[Guest newpop1]

here is what I get.

test.wav

[Guest newpop1]

yet another WAV file, is this what you were looking for?

 

Also, is there a better way to get support, we have been down for 4 days now and we are seriously hurting, we can not afford to lose more days down. This is taking too long.

 

Thanks

test2.wav

[SupportTeam]

The second wave file contains some sound that seemed to be a ringback tone.

 

The ringback tone has frequencies of 435Hz and 480Hz, and a cadence of 2 seconds On and 4 seconds OFF.

 

Try setting the TID_RNGBK1 tone section to these values:

 

<Freq1>430</Freq1>

<Freq1Dev>40</Freq1Dev>

<Freq2>480</Freq2>

<Freq2Dev>40</Freq2Dev>

<On>200</On>

<OnDev>20</OnDev>

<Off>400</Off>

<OffDev>20</OffDev>

<Count>1</Count>

 

The tones need to be set in CinfigLine.xml. To check if they are read in right you can look at the "tw" traces generated by VoiceGuide at startup:

 

Enable logging by setting the log levels to 10 in VG.INI as per below:

[Log]

ktTel=10

Then restart VG.

 

Trace files will be created in VG's \log\ subdirectory.

 

Please post the traces.

 

When posting traces/scripts please .ZIP them up and post them as attachments.

 

Please also post your Config.xml and ConfigLine.xml files.

[Guest newpop1]

Here are the files, config files and 2 log files it generated. With the new settings it did not work well.

 

Thanks

log.zip

[SupportTeam]

Trace shows that the Dialogic card detected that this call was answered by an Answering Machine:

 

071917.343 dx_dial([17078638980], with call progress) ok

071924.500 001 ev TDX_CALLP (Call Progress Completed)

071924.500 001 TDX_CALLP CR_CNCT (called line was connected)

071924.500 001 TDX_CALLP CR_CNCT CON_PAMD ( connection due to Positive Answering Machine Detection)

 

Call was hung up as the Answering Machine script entry was set to "RETRY"

 

071924.53 1 HangupCall start (AM msg RETRY)

[Guest newpop1]

can you look at these logs again, this is what happened. I had the system dial out, rang once, I picked up the phone and as soon as I picked up the phone, VG hung up. I looked and it says AM answered but it was instant. We are getting a lot of this, AM or human still not being recognized by VG 6.x. How can this be fixed? Any suggestion? or can you please tell me the steps to record the ringback tone wav file so I can post it for you to take a look at?

 

Thanks

log.zip

[SupportTeam]

Trace shows the Dialogic card reported that the Answering Machine answered the call.

 

Here are the relevant parts of the trace which show this:

 

200718.06 1 tw DialogicEvent 133,TDX_CALLP,10,4,0,TDX_CALLP,CR_CNCT,CON_PAMD

200718.06 1 event AM, iCode=133 state=5200

...

200718.09 1 StartPlayingAnsweringMachineMessage hCall=377781, params=10,4,0

200718.09 1 HangupCall start (AM msg RETRY)

 

 

200708.796 dx_dial([12019876521], with call progress) ok

200718.062 001 ev TDX_CALLP (Call Progress Completed)

200718.062 001 TDX_CALLP CR_CNCT (called line was connected)

200718.062 001 TDX_CALLP CR_CNCT CON_PAMD ( connection due to Positive Answering Machine Detection)

[Guest newpop1]

But that is incorrect since I answered the call, that is my point. VG 6.x is not working right. Under the same setup VG 5.x TAPI was working perfect in this area. What can I do to correct version 6? Or can you tell me how to make VG 5.x for TAPI work again? I tried reinstalling VG 5.x today but the Unique identifier it detects is wrong. I tried 3 different versions of 5.x, old , one from 11/05 and latest TAPI from your site. ALL 3 show the wrong unique identifier, it only shows 1 code and it is supposed to show 2 different codes.

 

Ideas?

[Guest newpop1]

Ok, hopefully this time I have everything you need to determine why VG 6 is not working. I have included:

 

the 2 logs, the 2 configs xml, the rec.vgs created, the WAV file it created, the outdial_new.xml used to generate it. Please note that it is not that I do not have a path for AM, it is set to <OnAnswerMachine>retry</OnAnswerMachine> and an <Escalation> specified but it never gets escalated.........

 

Please take a look at all files and if you can let me know what changes you suggest so I can try and get VG 6 working. I am working with the sales person in getting a valid code for version 5 to be installed in case you can't resolve this.

 

However we would love to resolve this, if we have to go back to 5 it means we can't use VG for future expansion.

 

Thanks

logs_xml_wav.zip

rec.vgs

[Guest newpop1]

I tried 5 times and was able to get 1 valid wav file, here is another in addition to the files I sent a few mins ago.

 

Thanks

rec.wav

[Guest newpop1]

Hello, ok maybe I need to start by clarifying how my outdial_new.xml is configured and see if it should behave differently than what I am thinking and I may be wrong of course. In the example below which I took out of the help file, I want VG to dial the 1st # and if no answer or VM is detected, then immediately call the second #, try 2 times more waiting 5 mins in each try. If not live person, then give up. Correct? Here is what I observe: VG dials out the first number and figures out it is an AM and hangs up, but then it does nothing else anymore, it hits a stop sign. Shouldn't it continue to try the next number? I included the logs as well.

 

Thanks

 

 

<OutDialEntry>

<PhoneNumber>17078638980</PhoneNumber>

<OnAnswer>g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\CallReminderHuman.vgs</OnAnswer>

<OnAnswerMachine>retry</OnAnswerMachine>

<CallRetries>0</CallRetries>

<RV>[PhoneNumber]{7078638980}[cId]{3}[LoginName]{USERNAME}[CallTime]{0417}[sentTi

e]{1447}[ConfirmNumber]{3}[speakText]{This is you wake up call}</RV>

<Escalation>

<OutDialEntry>

<PhoneNumber>17078638980</PhoneNumber>

<OnAnswer>g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\CallReminderHuman.vgs</OnAnswer>

<OnAnswerMachine>retry</OnAnswerMachine>

<CallRetries>2</CallRetries>

<RetryDelay>5</RetryDelay>

<RV>[PhoneNumber]{7078638980}[cId]{3}[LoginName]{USERNAME}[CallTime]{0417}[sentTi

e]{1447}[ConfirmNumber]{3}[speakText]{This is you wake up call}</RV>

</OutDialEntry>

</Escalation>

</OutDialEntry>

logs.zip

[SupportTeam]

But that is incorrect since I answered the call, that is my point.

The Dialogic cards are not 100% reliable in recognizing the difference between the Human answering the call and the Answering Machine.

 

Had a look at the Ringback tone definitions and it all seems fine, so we're at a bit of a loss to explain why the ringback is not being detected. It is an unusually long ringback tone with 2 seconds ON and 4 seconds OFF cadence. Can you setup a number which will never get answered so that we can run tests against it ourselves?

 

Which Dialogic cards are used in this system?

[Guest newpop1]

The cards are D4PCIU, we have 2 in 1 pc and 1 in another. They behave the same way. After the new changes in configline.xml, the cards seem to be more responsive and from testing with outdial_new.xml and looking at the logs I have found that it does detect between human and AM just fine now. However before I say that it is not related to the ringback tone still, can you answer my post in thread: http://voiceguide.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4916 . maybe we are past this issue and it is just matter of resolving the outdial_new.xml and I am doing something wrong there now that I have not been able to catch due to the long hours working on this.

 

Hopefully now it is just a mistake I have made in the outdial file, but I have gone over the XML tags and help file examples, and I can't get it to dial a number, detect if it is AM and then call a 2nd number immediately. According to logs , if 1st # is AM, then VG detects AM and hangs up, but it never dials the 2nd number for some reason.

 

I will wait for the answer on that thread. Otherwise I can set up a line that will just ring for you guys during the night (daylight for you) as requested for testing.

 

Thanks

[Guest newpop1]

I have been testing more and I can reproduce the behavior every time now. When I send the outdial_new.xml I sent, VG detects the first call that an AM answered and as you mentioned before, it 'thinks' that there is no answering machine script, but the tag is set to 'retry' as listed, it *should* escalate and call the next number but it does not do anything , it stops.

 

I looked in the OutDialQue.mdb and every time I send the same outdial_new.xml, it leaves a record in the MDB but it never escalates to the next value and the record stays there for days. Can you please look at this, I am sure you can reproduce this behavior. Or maybe I am doing something really wrong and I can't find it.

 

Thanks

OutDialQue.zip

[SupportTeam]

After the new changes in configline.xml, the cards seem to be more responsive and from testing with outdial_new.xml and looking at the logs I have found that it does detect between human and AM just fine now.

So is the ringback tone is now detected fine by the outgoing call?

 

The way to test it is to let the outgoing call ring without answering it. This way the result should be "No Answer" once the outgoing call timed out waiting to be answered.

 

If the system does not detect the ringback tone on the outgoing call at all then you should see the "No Ringback" situation (not the "No Cadence" situation).

no ringback means that the card has not heard a ringback tone at all for along period of time after call was made and hence the Dialogic assumes that the call must have been answered immediately after it was dialed and there was no time for any ringbacks to be played.

You will be able to tell that's happening if "CR_NORB" or "event NORINGBACK" is shown in the trace.

 

The "Connected due to Cadence Break" situation is a bit different.

This happens when the ringback was being heard for a while but then it stopped.

This pretty much can only happen if the call is answered (so the ringback stops) but the person or system answering the call does not say/play anything - so there is just silence on the line.

You will be able to tell that's happening if "CON_CAD" or "event CADENCE" is shown in the trace.

[SupportTeam]

Regarding the immediate dialing of escalation calls when "RETRY" is specified for Answering Machine script and the retry counter is 0:

 

Please update your system with attached .exe and see if this now works as desired.

VgMulti_3318.zip

[Guest newpop1]

Hello, I installed the new EXE and that solved out outdial problem. Now it is escalating the calls just fine.

 

As far as the Cadence issues, I looked at the attached logs and there is no mention of Ringback. I see what you mention of Cadence. VG dials and after 5 rings it thinks it detects silence or live person when in fact it hasn't. Is there a way to modify the rec script that I used to get a ringback tone and tell VG to keep recording instead of hanging up once it detects silence? I would like to find out what it hears I guess.

 

For the rest of the issues, they seem to be pretty much all solved. Thanks for all the help during the upgrade and your quick changes to the program. You got us back in business.

Voiceguide.zip

[SupportTeam]

Trace reports that the Dialogic card was hearing the ringback, but after a while it did not - hence the "Cadence Break":

 

115614.000 dx_dial([12012234432], with call progress) ok

115637.093 001 ev TDX_CALLP (Call Progress Completed)

115637.093 001 TDX_CALLP CR_CNCT (called line was connected)

115637.093 001 TDX_CALLP CR_CNCT CON_CAD (connection due to cadence break)

 

Quite possibly the ringback tone on the line just changes sometimes and that is what is causing the Dialogic card to report 'Cadence break'. (are you using VoIP lines?).

 

Try increasing the allowed cadence variances in the ringback tone definition, maybe to something like this:

 

<Freq1>430</Freq1>

<Freq1Dev>40</Freq1Dev>

<Freq2>480</Freq2>

<Freq2Dev>40</Freq2Dev>

<On>200</On>

<OnDev>100</OnDev>

<Off>400</Off>

<OffDev>300</OffDev>

<Count>1</Count>

 

If you still have problems then what I'd recommend here is to make an outgoing call using a script with a single Record module to record what is heard on the line, and set the Answering Machine script to "DISABLED". This will start the "Human Answer" script immediately after the number has been dialed, so you record everything that happens on the line, not just what happens after Dialogic reports the call as connected.

Due to the long silences between the ringbacks here you will need to change the silence detection parameters so that the recording does not stop when it hears the 4 seconds of silence. See here on how to change silence detection settings: http://www.voiceguide.com/vghelp/html/modRecord.htm

[Guest newpop1]

I changed the dev params and they did not have any effect. I see that in some AM's VG recognizes them quickly and properly. Sometimes it just rings twice and starts to deliver the script. So I recorded using your directions the WAV files attached. All calls were done from the same line and I tested the same rec script in both servers with 2 different lines to make sure it was the same.

 

Failx.wav is when VG fails to recognize that phone still ringing and no one has answered yet. Two different phone numbers were tested.

 

AMdetected.wav is a phone number where VG waits properly for the VM or human to answer and then upon answering, VG recognizes the AM or HUMAN just fine.

 

I also included the logs for when it kept ringing until AM was detected and for when VG just let it ring twice before starts sending the script. Both logs were generated with the test rec script.

 

I see that in the AMDected there is a slight decrease in the ring tone level at the end of each tone, is this what VG 6 looks for? Or how can I make VG recognize that the line is still ringing and to wait until someone answers. Even if it does not recognize AM vs. HUMAN, there is still a better chance than just playing the script right away after the 2 ring tone.

 

Please advise.

 

Thanks

wavs_logs.zip

[SupportTeam]

You can see in the "AMdetected.wav" recording (which was made by starting recording immediately after dialing) that the ringback tone on the first 4 ringbacks (and probably a few more as well) is non-uniform.

 

If the ringback tones are not uniform and predictable then you will not be able to reliably detect them.

 

Are these VoIP lines? This looks like a ringback tone of a poor quality VoIP<->Analog adapter.

 

You should speak to the adapter supplier and get them to provide you with an adapter which generates uniform ringback tones.

[Guest newpop1]

The lines are Standard POTS lines on copper, no VoiP here. The AMdetected.wav file shows where VG worked perfectly and that is the one that is non-uniform, but that is the one that worked. The one that is uniform fail.wav, is the one that VG does not detect the continuous ring.

 

Maybe I did not explain ok, the AMdetected.wav was recorded when a phone # was dialed when VG works fine and recognizes the ring just fine, waits for the AM or Human and delivers the script as it is supposed to be.

 

The Fail.wav files were recorded when dialing phone #'s when VG only waits 2 rings before it decides to deliver the script even though the line continues to ring. So my question is, why would VG work with the AMdetected.wav just fine even though you say it is not uniform and fail to recognize the ring tone when it is uniform.

 

Furthermore, being regular POTS lines, how can we may VG work?

 

Thanks

[SupportTeam]

Looks like the ringback tone is not always uniform on these lines.

 

When ringback tone is not uniform then you're likely to see the 'cadence break' events as the Dialogic card can no longer recognize the ringback cadence.

 

In the last .ZIP file, the "AMDetected" traces are the ones that were made with the 'Answering Machine' set to DISABLE, so the script was started immediately after dialing - that's what allowed you to record the non-uniform ringback...

 

 

125648.81 1 dial making call tel[12012221121] ann[] vgs[g:\Program Files\VoiceGuide\Scripts\MVDriverLine\rec.vgs] am[DISABLED] OnHangup[] rv[[PhoneNumber]{1711}[cId]{10}[LoginName]{WMATASUS}[CallTime]{2119}[sentTime]{2

30}[ConfirmNumber]{0}[speakText]{This is an automated call }[OutDial_RetriesLeft]{0}]

[Guest newpop1]

right, but the other wav files also have the DISABLED option as well as you told me to do it. If you can answer one question for me, how come VG works fine when the ring one is not uniform as in AMDetected and does not recognize the ring tone when it is uniform?

 

Thx

[SupportTeam]

how come VG works fine when the ring one is not uniform as in AMDetected

But the Dialogic card did not have time to do any detection... the script with the record module was started immediately after dialing...

 

It's likely that the ringback tone starts off not uniform and eventually (eg. by 4th ring or later) becomes more uniform.

You can try doing a number of recordings (which start immediately after dialing) and see how the ringbacks sound from call to call just to see if the ringbacks are always non-uniform, or just some of the time.